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Map strategies and general tips and tricks
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Precizion
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:46 pm Post subject: No icon Map strategies and general tips and tricks Reply with quote

All things being equal, on the attack/defend maps, red will win most of the time. And as the level of play and players continues to rise this will only continue to be so. You only have to look at badwater to see this. When it first released blue was winning nearly every round. Now it's pretty rare you'll see the bomb explode unless the teams are a little stacked. And I don't think I even have to say anything about how bad Goldrush has become.

I'm starting this thread in the hope that we can change that somewhat, as there are some very simple but vital things a lot of players are just not seeing that could swing things back in the favor of the blue team (of course, there also some things a lot of the red team tend to miss as well, but I won't be mentioning those and I hope no one else does either as it is getting tiring playing the same stages over and over again).

Before getting in to specific maps, I want to point out one simple but valuable thing that every player should know: Pressure is everything. Okay, maybe it's not everything since player skill counts for a hell of a lot, but it's half the battle at least. It doesn't matter if you are in a 1v1 fight or 5 v 5 fight, playing TF2, Quake 3, or some other game, if you put your opponent of the back foot, you have a distinct advantage. And if you keep putting him on the back foot, this advantage only increases. But as soon as you hesitate for a single second or begin to backpedal, you are in trouble. I won't go in to why this is so, because there's a lot to it. Just know that if you pay attention you'll see it clearly for yourself. It's one of the main reasons I tend to do so well. My aim and prediction aren't anything special and there are others on the server with just as good skill sets, if not better. But when I get in to a fight, I go in with no hesitation and complete confidence (that somewhat borders on the delusional) that I'll come out the better, whether it is against one player or against three. And this makes all the difference.

Anyone who watches football should know just how important a role confidence plays. And how one team piling the pressure on the other can really mess with the others game. It's the same in TF2. Not just in individual fights, but also in the whole ebb and flow of the general play. And this is something I will try and point out when looking at some of the maps.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:53 pm Post subject: No icon  Reply with quote

So that's the secret?
It's a bugger I'm such a coward....
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:16 pm Post subject: No icon  Reply with quote

allways found it fascinating how the blue team sits around for 10 minutes doing nothing and then overtime it till they win
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:19 pm Post subject: No icon  Reply with quote

On the other hand sometimes you can take avantage of players that act like precizion does if your smart, but it obviously depends on how smart they are too... For example a heavy which is trying to take out an annoying scout that keeps retreating. Call for medic and shout "Help", run away and wait for the scout to try and take you out (when he thinks you have rather low hp when in fact you are quite healthy). This also works with the spy, backwheeling away from a W + M1 pyro (even those that are "skilled" with the pyro often fall into this one) calling for medic and shooting the pyro with the revolver, he isn't that much faster than you and will often end up paying for his aggression with a death.


Ninja caps
-----------------

Dustbowl stage 1..........

Attack not as a spy but as a scout. You can often run past the enemy sg fire, wait for the first point to be capped (make sure you time your run to coincide with your teams progress) then immidiately try and cap the second point. It helps a lot if you have a spy (preferable) or another scout to help. This can be difficult since engineers have begun to build at the first point at the beginning of the game.

Any payload map....

Spy capping the cart. Situation:- the cart is almost at the final point and the route to the cart is dangerous with sgs and stickies everywhere.

Disguise either as a friendly (fast speed) class or with no disguise at all. Cloak past the team picking up ammo if you see it, uncloak BEHIND the cart and you will immidiately begin to push the cart (if you do a normal disguise you have to wait for uncloaking to finish and then remove your disguise manually), many people don't notice this although the better players will.


Using ubers
---------------

Dustbowl all stages first cap:-

Your team rushes in with a demo uber to destroy sgs, rather than just waiting for them to complete the good work move yourself onto the point! The uber with draw the sg fire (and if you are attacked instead you are doing them a favour).

Scouting for TF2:-

When your team ubers to attack the final point of a stage, wait a few seconds then move onto the point. Remember ubers cannot cap the point but you can! If your capping they will find it difficult to attack you since the uber will be in the way. Scouts do this two times faster and can double jump onto the point.

You can also do this with Pyros with airblast equiped. Just stand on the point, create a wall of fire and airblast anyone who tries to remove you from the point.

Soldiers and demoman may help as well since they can use their explosives to launch themselves onto the point.

Also remember if you uber on the point and you have eliminated all threats....stop the uber immidiately to begin capping. Switch weapons to stop the uber charge.

I will think of some more another time.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:23 pm Post subject: No icon  Reply with quote

I'll start of with Goldrush since that is perhaps the worst offender. Hopefully others to can add to what I put here and make the map the a lot more enjoyable.

Stage 1:

After cracking the initial defense and clearing out the reds, players tend to just stop and shepherd the cart to the point. People really need to stop doing this. Sure you get points for it, but it is only a couple. It's much better to leave the cart alone and all push straight for the bridge over the ditch and try and hold the reds back from there whilst one or two players bring the cart up behind you. Doing this gives the reds no time to setup and makes it easy to get the cart to the final point.

If reds are wise to this and have a sentry up early, then try not to do what everyone always does: run upstairs and shoot at the other team from there and forget about the cart until there's 30 seconds left from the map (and you'll notice that when they finally do rush it with time running out, they usually cap it. Funny that.) There only reason you should ever go upstairs is to either take sentry guns down, or if you want to drop down and get behind the enemy. Just standing up there and firing is pretty pointless for the most part since as soon as you kill one, another will appear shortly after. With no pressure on them, they can hold you off indefinately.

The best thing to do is fight around the cart and keep pushing it, even if its just inches. Those inches add up over the course of 10 minutes, and soon as it is halfway towards the point, it gets a bit easier anyway. Or sometimes its even better not to fight. Just duck behind and then push it. Snipers or SGs cant get you, so you can get it quite a way before dieing. Then once the SGs are down, it makes it easy for the rest of your team. Pyros are pretty good classes for this as they can clear the inevitable stickys and push back any classes that run at them.

Another reason teams often get stuck on this stage is because too many don't know how to easily clear a SG. Or if they do, they tend to let the engineers set back up right after. But the SGs are really easy to clear on this map if you stand in the right spot. If you are a soldier, just stand on the boxes up top and take out the engy through whatever gap is next to the SG, then take the SG and dispensor (don't forget this otherwise they will setup easily again) down.



Demos can also take them down from here if they charge their shots up, but there is a better spot for them.



From here you can charge your stickys up to half power, then jump and fire through the gap above the gate. Do it right and they will land right on top of the SG. Of course, if there engy is smart he will shoot your stickys, so try and do it when you see him move away. This spot is also good for soldier to take out any engy who sets up on the small ledge. You can jump and fire through the hole and easily take him out without getting shot back at.

Like mentioned in the first post, the main thing is just to keep the pressure up on the reds. If you do you'll find them gathering around the small area just to the side of their spawn and rarely venturing forward. It's a simple matter to push the cart then.


Stage 2:

Don't have much to say on this one except that at the start, you can take out most of their SGs as demo quite easily from various angles. And for the second stage, try not to repeat the same mistake as the first, where you just go upstairs and shoot at them from there. Always better to fight around the cart and push it as much as possible. And then, once it is in their area, try not to fight around the closed in areas that house the health packs. Always try and attack via the left area. The SGs cant get you there, whereas you can easily take them out. And non demo/soldier classes should protect those two classes whilst they deal with the SGs.

Again, keep up the pressure and things go easier.


Stage 3:

The one thing that can win this is a good engy who should always get a tele up first and as high a level as possible. If players have to run that distance, you haven't got much chance of winning.

The other reason teams often get stuck here is because they waste ubers. Sure, they take out the SGs, but they do so when there is no one following them in so the uber ends up being wasted. Always try and hold off using it until you have backup. And those players nearby, don't stand around when they do go in. This often tends to happen and again is the main reason people get stuck not just on this stage, but also on others. It's not uncommon to see everyone waiting around for the uber and then, when it finally goes in, everyone holds back not wanting to die and then waiting around again for the next uber, hoping next time things will be less dangerous for them.

The final thing to add for this stage is that, if you have to engys, one of you should setup in the side bit so that the team can attack from both sides. Just don't do it if you are the only engy as you'll have no one to push the cart.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:09 pm Post subject: No icon  Reply with quote

A note about ubers - using them to attack the other team around a point is good, sure, but in my eyes they're wasted if the rest of the team aren't helping. One thing I saw work very effectively (Dustbowl Stage 1, second point 2), was an uber from the side tunnel headed left down the stairs and to the point, while a medic gave me kritz (Soldier) on the wooden bridge part. Almost their entire team was preoccupied with the ubers and our team members following the uber, I was able to stand there are take them out with ease. Oh, we capped it pretty quick.

Had our team not followed the uber and had that medic not given me kritz, the uber on point would've been utterly wasted. So, notify team mates of an upcoming uber, so they can organize themselves to attack the enemy's flanks.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:57 pm Post subject: No icon  Reply with quote

smudge wrote:

Your team rushes in with a demo uber to destroy sgs, rather than just waiting for them to complete the good work move yourself onto the point! The uber with draw the sg fire (and if you are attacked instead you are doing them a favour).

it cant be stressed enough how important this is. charging an uber takes long enough, running in and clearing all sgs is work which is wasted if noone follows in.

and another thing: as the blue team there are almost no situations in which a kritzkrieg is more valuable than an √úbercharge. so dont go for easy kills and help the team destroy some sgs and put endless pressure on them
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:22 pm Post subject: No icon  Reply with quote

damn you ppl you write a lot Smile
i do agree confidence is everything. I am delusional pyro ( thanks Precizion Smile ) and i will almost always rush in just to create panic - it is actually very funny to see how enemy will panic and try to kill you forgetting about everything else - obviously you will die but you will buy your team precious time to do w/e is required.
Smudge : its not that pyro only W+M1 and fall for ppl backpedaling from them, basically im yet too see enemy player (except pyros) that when he sees me charging just waites or charges me Smile
Demo tip: people... demo has 2 types of grenades.. stickies arent the best to destroy sentries.. if you can clearly see engi from safe distance just work on your balistics skills Smile
And 1 more thing : priorities!!! you always need to know which class is most dangerous against you in particulat situation.. engi building sg lev1 seems harmless.. but just you wait till he finishes.. I find it quite.. worrying how often ppl do that simple mistake..
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:17 pm Post subject: No icon  Reply with quote

It's funny how Engineers dictate pretty much the whole offense. Sure they are not doing the fighting and Medics are the most valuable but good Engineers do something more. And that's directing people towards the best path from which to attack. For example the middle buildings on GR stage 2. Engineer set up in the right side rooms will direct people towards the tracks and right side health/ammo house while if he set up on the left side then people getting out of the teleporters will probably take the left side flank route from which it is easier to take out sentries. Just something to think about next time you're setting up.

And one advice I would give is to move together. Something you learn while playing Medic is that on your own you really are not that much of a threat, but when you have 3-4 guys covering each other and focus firing then there is little an enemy can do to stop you.

Btw just noticed that Precizion has 150 fps... I don't think I ever even saw such a thing. Confused
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:05 pm Post subject: No icon  Reply with quote

druid wrote:
Smudge : its not that pyro only W+M1 and fall for ppl backpedaling from them, basically im yet too see enemy player (except pyros) that when he sees me charging just waites or charges me Smile


This brings up a good point. All too often players run away from a pyro, especially if they are ubered. You sometimes see a whole team pushed right back just by one player. A much better thing to do is just step to side and watch the pyro run past you (or course this isn't a good idea if you are a medic since they will be targeting you). Or failing that, run past them and try to draw them off from the main group. This works against other ubered classes as well, especially demomen. The only one you should really be running from is an ubered heavy.

Or if you are a soldier and feeling confident, attack the ubered player and try juggling them up in to the air.

GeneralTGF wrote:
Btw just noticed that Precizion has 150 fps... I don't think I ever even saw such a thing. Confused Confused


I actually get around 200-250 fps on an empty server in certain spots. You'll notice though that the game doesn't look very good since I am running in direct x 8.1 mode. I've got a rig powerful enough to run with all the settings turned up, but I just find the game looks a lot cleaner and has less distracting clutter/effects all over the screen on the lower settings. That, and so that when things do get busy, it'll never drop below a point where it becomes that noticeable (say 75-80 fps). It makes playing the scout a lot easier.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:19 pm Post subject: No icon  Reply with quote

smudge wrote:
Dustbowl tips


All good stuff. The only things I'd add is for Dustbowl 2.2 and 3.2

On 2.2 there are two choices to cap the point. The first is what most people do: build up the ubers in the tunnel, and then all rush in. There's nothing particularly wrong with this strategy, especially as most people seem to be waiting for the 2nd uber these days. Just make sure you communicate it well to the rest of the team that the ubers are ready and that they should follow you in.

The other strategy is to do a similar thing to Goldrush 2.2 and just all keep piling down the left hand side. It's easy for demos to take out the SGs here without getting shot, and the other classes can keep the reds at bay and have a full health pack to keep the healed. If you have just 4 or 5 keeping up sustained pressure from that side, it's pretty damn hard for the reds to do anything about it and it will only be a matter of time before the stage is over.

On 3.2, there's a corner that people often get stuck at. It's the one with the stairs leading up from the tunnel. There's no reason at all this should happen, and the only reason it does, is because people are afraid just just pile in and risk the chance of dying. The thing is, even just one player can often push them all back if they just charge in. If everyone does it, no one will ever get held up there. This is also why it is not a great idea to set up dispensers or SGs around that corner. People tend to hang around them instead of moving on.

Finally, just a tip for demomen on 3.1 If there is a SG to the left, ignore it and take out the ones of the right. The ones on the left are easy to get without an uber so don't valuable waste time with them.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:43 am Post subject: No icon  Reply with quote

Good point with the sentries on the left. I usually go right to take out the sentries there.

I am quite happy to charge in flamer burning - if only to cause a distraction for the rest of the team to manoevre in and take down sentries - I have no fear of death - or lousy KPDs Wink
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:33 pm Post subject: No icon  Reply with quote

Sentry gun nest tactics (4 or more sgs on RED) - Looking at dustbowl 2.2
-----------------------------------------------------------
Im going to look at dustbowl 2.2 since that is the worst offender in my opinion.
When RED has a sg nest, BLU seems to have an awful lot of trouble taking it out. Its very much possible. Im going to break it down into components.


>Class structure

You are going to need to have lots of medics and demoman. Each medic should have their own demoman to uber hopefully.
You also need soliders OR pyros to rush in and cap. As an option you can bring heavies and scouts.

>Tactic

The tactic should never be the same. Look at how their defence is structured. If they have loads of stickies and airblasting pyros ready outside the gate, you may consider going down the left flank.

Either way its good to have people attacking from both flanks, but this can be difficult (if not impossible) to coordinate.

When you go to attack push some non ubered players up first to clear out the airblasting pyros and demoman stickies if possible. Then move the ubers in one by one.

WHATEVER YOU DO DON'T ALL UBER AT THE SAME TIME. This ends up in disaster every time. Move in to the point and only uber when you are close to the objective. Your non ubered players should have hopefully cleared anything infront of you. Uber up and sticky the sentry guns.

Whilst this is happening the rest of the team should start to move in. Any spies should be sapping all they can or get ready to cap immidiately, soliders should begin to fire upon the team and pyros stand by. Once the sgs are down move right in and cap, you may be able to do this before they are down if they are drawing fire.


Alternative tactic less focused upon medics
-------------------------------------------------------
Get your demoman in the left flank and start shooting the stickes over to the sgs. You may need support since the team will try and kill you but this should work if you are competent enough. An uber will still be needed since some areas cannot be reached without being killed (usually). As before you need the team to rush in after.






This tactic seems very much overcomplicated but, you have to remember that a team of engineers that cooperate are a tough team, if you destroy their sgs and then retreat they will have them up again in no time at all. The basics are:-

>Take them all out at once, not just one or two.
>Cap after destroying sgs by having the team rush in


I hope someone has a better or clearer way of putting this. Please post if you do.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:45 pm Post subject: No icon  Reply with quote

http://www.fpsbanana.com/tutcats/213
have fun.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject: No icon  Reply with quote

Shogun wrote:
So that's the secret?
It's a bugger I'm such a coward....


instacrits, what else?
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