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Spawn player outlines Issues

 
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What do you think?
Full removal
55%
 55%  [ 5 ]
Reduced timer on spawn X-ray
22%
 22%  [ 2 ]
Leave it as is
22%
 22%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 9

Author Message
Kenta
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:49 pm Post subject: No icon Spawn player outlines Issues Reply with quote

I've been playing on the servers for a few months now and have been enjoying the class restrictions but one think I've had an issue with is that is that the servers do not have the player outline glow disabled, I believe its an unfair advantage towards spies and encourages a more aggressive play style with the dead ringer with spy instead of actually trying to be what a spy is meant to be.

Ever since the spawn X-ray feature was introduced into Team Fortress 2 it partially forced spies to forget about positioning, timing and trying to be sneaky in favor for just saying "screw this, It's to risky to run the default because I'll just get called out from someone across the map that just re-spawned" and just use the L-Etranger, Dead Ringer and Kunai combo which is the ultimate safety net in the game by the way. I've heard countless times with the regular players that populate 70 % of the servers that playing against A DR spy is very frustrating actually caused a good portion of them to stop playing when spies use the combo. IF we change the settings of the X-ray it can cause spies to be more encouraged to use the other watches because they wont be called out as soon as they de-cloack by a person far away at spawn.

To possibly fix this problem and to make the unfair disadvantage spies have to deal with from this feature I would like to suggest you would consider doing one of two things:
    Fully disable the Spawn player outlines
    Reduce the amount of time people can see their team through walls

Both of these can be easily done with the command "tf_spawn_glows_duration" which either reduces or turns them off as soon as you spawn but while you're dead you can see through walls. If this is disabled my hope is that the Dead Ringer meta of spy will lessen and there will be more thoughtful and manageable (easier to kill) spy plays.

And with this in place spies can feel less frustrated that they can be called out because of an unfair mechanic the TF2 team lacked the hindsight to not add.

Thank you for your time
Izzy.
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Fnif
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:47 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Spawn player outlines Issues Reply with quote

Absolutely agree. The spawnoutline makes running with a disguise for more than 3 seconds a giveaway. I spend more time undisguised for that same reason. However, this also straight up discourages playing spy, which seems to be what players want in general.

Anyway, I think a compromise would be to remove spawnlines to make normal watch viable, since hiding in a disguise would be an option.

Nonetheless, I do not understand why people prefer playing against the Invis Watch, seems like a worse experience to be stabbed without being able to see the spy. Especially snipers is more bothered by the invis watch, the DR encourages the spy to kill pretty much any class. However, I have been disagreed with this a lot.
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Kenta
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:45 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Spawn player outlines Issues Reply with quote

Fnif wrote (View Post):
Absolutely agree. The spawnoutline makes running with a disguise for more than 3 seconds a giveaway. I spend more time undisguised for that same reason. However, this also straight up discourages playing spy, which seems to be what players want in general.

Anyway, I think a compromise would be to remove spawnlines to make normal watch viable, since hiding in a disguise would be an option.

Nonetheless, I do not understand why people prefer playing against the Invis Watch, seems like a worse experience to be stabbed without being able to see the spy. Especially snipers is more bothered by the invis watch, the DR encourages the spy to kill pretty much any class. However, I have been disagreed with this a lot.


Its the fact that if the spy is caught they can easily get away with the DR with no punishment what so ever, they have made the DR near impossible to punish now due to the after burn immunity and scout speed boost. I've heard many people express this exact frustration on the mumble. Another reason they prefer the invis watch is because they don't feel outplayed, not cheaped out by a spy just tanking a hit, speeding away while decloaking and backstabbing someone that wasnt paying attention giving them ammo for the DR and 220 overheal if they are using the kunai, any decent spy will not die at all
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:46 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Spawn player outlines Issues Reply with quote

Looking at an ideal situation, with ideal loadout and then comming to the conclusion that Spy is overpowered seems unfair to me. You can make such a situation for every single class in the game. The DR and Invis watch works completely diffrently.

Invis watch's hard part is not getting the first kill, but getting away afterwards. Pros: Easier to get first kill. Cons: difficult to escape
DR is the opposite, it is more difficult to grab the first kill, however much easier to escape.

That is why it frustrates me that people expect both watches to turn out the same. You have to stop the DR spy BEFORE he stabs, instead of avenging a teammates afterwards. Prevent, not avenge, with DR. With Invis the Spy WILL get a kill, then the team have to avenge that person, since the spy without like the Big Earner will get caught.

The assumption that DR is a free out of jail card for a Spy that "misposition" is a myth imo. YES, you can use DR to get out of a sticky situation, but that will punish the spy anyway, they have to wait for next DR. Optimal use is to use it after getting a kill, that is the intention. That kill will most likely put you in a sticky situation, but that is not nessesarily a mispositioning, if you have went deep to get a medic, then you will pretty much ALWAYS be in a bad spot, that is where the DR gets you out, dont look at it as if the Spy now has mispositioned, instead consider he got the job done, and you didn't prevent it, because with all due respect, you had the oppertunity to prevent it, you litterally always have when it comes to medics etc.

I get it is frustrating to kill something that doesn't count, but in case that spy had an invis watch instead of DR; I bet you, he would have played differently and you wouldn't have been in that excact situation.

This might spark some discussion, but keep it clean, I dont mind arguing this out
(And ps, English is not first language)
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Kenta
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:31 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Spawn player outlines Issues Reply with quote

I'm A spy main myself, I'm mostly talking about my observations in the servers, most of the time a spy with the DR will get 1-2 kills before anyone reacts and by then he has been given 2 medium ammo packs which is enough to proc DR then unproc and pick up the 2 ammo packs and get full DR again, either way the topic isn't the DR mechanic that we cannot alter but the X-ray spawn mechanic which it is well within the servers power to alter.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:35 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Spawn player outlines Issues Reply with quote

Hey there Kenta

I agree that X-ray should be removed, i'm not even sure why it was added in the first place. I guess so people can group up but I thought the objectives did that job well enough.

Spy is already hard enough to play without having to deal with X-ray.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:36 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Spawn player outlines Issues Reply with quote

I'd just like to bump this up to keep its awareness
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:02 am Post subject: No icon Re: Spawn player outlines Issues Reply with quote

Sorry, i didn't see this thread.
We could try to reduce glow time to 1 or 2 sec after player spawn.
We ll test it on server 2 soon and see if it makes things better.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:58 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Spawn player outlines Issues Reply with quote

That would be great, the 10 second glow is just silly
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