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Votecrit has been implemented! (discussion)
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:47 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Votecrit has been implemented! (discussion) Reply with quote

On a more serious note this time,

The main problem is that people like to play with the people on the server, that's why #2 never became a thing. People like on #1 like the chat and such. Why not implement a global chat (like /E (insert message) on the server. That way both servers are connected to eachother and people can still talk to eachother.

This has nothing to do with the crit thing on 1 right now, but it might be a better solution to get #2 going and let players who want to play without crits not feel left out on the community.

On the critvote thing, I dont care. I do care about all this bitching about crits (on or off), which makes it all less enjoyable.

But enough of that serious nonsense, here have something to brighten up your day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_49VS4nuao (credits to terri)
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:18 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Votecrit has been implemented! (discussion) Reply with quote

TheKnigget wrote (View Post):
Democracy?
Currently I think there is a permanent majority for non-crits meaning the democratic vote is no longer, in my eyes, democratic since it will always end up being non-crits.


You have literally just described democracy. Something doesn't become 'undemocratic' just because you don't get your way. If the majority of the server prefers not to have crits, then they won't have crits. There has already been a compromise for melee weapons so that they are functioning independent of the vote, and that is at least understandable since melee would be extremely weak without them.


TheKnigget wrote (View Post):
I'm merely saying this as I have yet to see the vote swing to pro-crits. Statistics would be nice here.


Whether this is the case or not is irrelevant with respect to any argument for or against the critvote, and is simply a demonstration of it working as intended. If the majority are consistently voting to disable random crits, then they are simply being given the opportunity to voice their preference. Before the critvote implementation there was absolutely no way to do this, and instead these people were pushed to the sideline at the whims of a few (despite them supposedly being the majority as you point out).


TheKnigget wrote (View Post):
Does this mean we should always have non-crits permanently?  Not really otherwise you risk disengaging/fragmenting the pro-crits but then vice versa so maybe a vote is a good idea...


Exactly. Those who couldn't stand crits still played on the server despite them being permenently enabled. I understand that democracy as an ideal is far from perfect (like most are), but quite frankly the only thing worse than it are the alternatives. This is the best option available to us to remedy the situation with the most amicable outcome.


TheKnigget wrote (View Post):
But then switching between non-crits/ crits would be annoying to deal with.
So THG is effectively stuck been a rock and a hard place.


Not really. This is objectively the best solution we have to satisfy both parties as best we can, and you only question it to be otherwise due to your own personal bias.


TheKnigget wrote (View Post):
The funny thing about this whole crit/non-crit argument was that #2 was set up for non-crits yet nobody really went to it since it was easier to join into a full server, in this case #1. Its disappointing to see that a forcing function was used in order to satisfy those who wanted non-crits. (Forcing function a way of deliberately making the user do something, for example microwaves automatically cuts off when its door is open to prevent user from being zapped as some users may forget to turn off the power before opening the door)


What are you talking about? Random crits were forcibly enabled at all times prior to the critvote, and putting this plugin in place simply provided the greatest possible degree of user choice available. That is the absolute complete opposite to what you're claiming here. Now that there is a possibility the vote may not swing your way you claim that this whole system is 'forcing' you to play a way you don't want to, while completely ignoring the fact that it is an infinitely far more flexible system than what was in place before?


TheKnigget wrote (View Post):
We can semi-flip this and ask ourselves, if a sizable portion of the playerbase dislike crits (fairly intensely might I add), why didn't they go to #2?
If a sizable portion of the playerbase dislikes crits, they should be able to keep #2 up and running. After all you need to have a sizable portion of the playerbase to kick start the server


This type of thing fractures the community, and during my time here I have never seen #2 full outside of rare occurrences of #1 crashing or randoms filling it up out of the blue. I'm fairly sure you'd feel insulted if I told you to go and make #2 a random crit server and play there instead too. This is grasping at straws.


TheKnigget wrote (View Post):
Regarding "and yet they are still around", perhaps because #1 was the go to server?


This proves my above point.


TheKnigget wrote (View Post):
We can find out by deliberately redirecting #1 users to #2 without letting the user know. Something similar to Google A/B testing.


This is starting to get excessive. I'm not really sure how to respond to something so outlandish.


TheKnigget wrote (View Post):
Though what I think relates to this issue is the fact that #1 is slowly becoming a higher skilled server. As the skill ceiling starts getting higher, it attracts people of those levels. So the demand for a serious yet fair game grows stronger. Some might say that's a good thing and it might even be the natural progression of a server, the other option is dying of course.
But one thing to bear in mind is that the higher we go in terms of skill level, the less players there are to attract to the server. As high skilled players are merely a sub-set of the overall population within tf2. So there could be an argument that in the long term THG might not be able to sustain a server.

A hard counter to this arguement could be "But THG doesn't cater for the lower skilled, it sits somewhere between valve pubs and competitive lobbies"
True but we are shifting towards the competitive side of the skill level. Every time we shift closer to the competitive skill level, the sub set gets smaller.
As a double wammy, the further we go competitive the higher the chance of dissuading those of lower skill level to join us.
So in terms of maintaining a high server population, it may be difficult in the long term.


This is pure conjecture, and extremely exaggerated at that. THG has always had a decently skilled playerbase, and with or without random crits that will not change. You are overstressing the importance and effect that random crits have on the server, and going down the slippery slope. We are simply putting a vote in place on whether people want crits on or off, not enforcing some insane meta, whitelist and all. People still go as ridiculous classes like demopan, mitten heavy, market garden soldier, and phlog pyro (although this one is mostly just weak rather than ridiculous, especially after the nerf). Not only that, but they get kills as those things. It's quite evident that while THG is a pub with a skilled playerbase, it's still just a pub, and people don't take it that seriously.


TheKnigget wrote (View Post):
Either way, I don't really care about if its non-crit or crit. I only care about the health of this community and right now it's not in the best of shapes. That's for sure.


Is there any proof of this, or is it simply more conjecture? The server has been completely full at the usual times and with the usual regulars ever since the vote was put in place. I've seen absolutely no change in atmosphere, playerbase or user activity.


I_am_terrible wrote (View Post):
Well the server is just becoming what HH used to be which i grew tired with and THG was a nice change. I will probably just stop playing to be honest because i don't see random crits being voted on. It will just end the same way with the people playing now just keeping it off at all times. Disappointing for me but i have other games to play instead.


I am not familiar with HH at all since I did not come from there, but a simple critvote is not going to cause any drastic changes to what makes the server what it is. I've been playing every day for several hours ever since the votecrit was put in place and no discernible difference seems to have been made. Outputting unjustified pessimism and doomsaying like this isn't good for anyone, nor does it really hold anything of value to address, since the points made are completely intangible.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:30 am Post subject: No icon Re: Votecrit has been implemented! (discussion) Reply with quote

I am against a vote for random crits, it should stay as it was.

I was about to write a lot of stuff but everyone said almost everything I wanted to say and I will add this

"THG has always had a decently skilled playerbase" I agree with you but they were never a majority, THG was always about the community but this changed (My guess it happened after THG & HH started doing event together) and THG started getting more skilled players than we used to, for me this is obvious because of the votes for 5cp maps, 5cp maps were never that popular in THG except for the last year or so, we always tried new maps and did customs maps but I don't remember playing 5cp as much as we do now and skilled players like those maps.
That's why we always have to try to keep that balance because THG survive by having a full server not skilled players.

I never like using the idea of democracy as it makes people feel "if its a democracy thing then its good", I can give you an example of a vote if we used in the server will drive some people away: "All talk", a vote for all talk will almost always be to "turn it on" because most of them want to have fun but we know some players don't like it so we don't.

Huwa you talked about "unjustified doomsaying" but the server is only going for 4 hours a day and it needs to be full during those hours, that't not easy, all it takes is you lose a certain number of players at the same time and you got a dead server.
TF2 is a 9 year old game, most regulars aren't here because of TF2 they are here for THG, that's my opinion.

EDIT: BTW I am glad that this happened and going to pop in tomorrow to see how things are.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:57 am Post subject: No icon Re: Votecrit has been implemented! (discussion) Reply with quote

Huwajux wrote (View Post):

I am not familiar with HH at all since I did not come from there, but a simple critvote is not going to cause any drastic changes to what makes the server what it is. I've been playing every day for several hours ever since the votecrit was put in place and no discernible difference seems to have been made. Outputting unjustified pessimism and doomsaying like this isn't good for anyone, nor does it really hold anything of value to address, since the points made are completely intangible.


You may not have found any difference but recently I've found that the server is just less fun to play on it seems to be far more about TF2 being serious business with loads of 5cp maps and now the crit vote. I play TF2 because it was fun to mess around and a lot of the people on THG were a laugh and friendly. Now it seems #1 is leaning towards catering for the more competitive end of the TF2 spectrum which i certainly don't enjoy.

Its a shame as ill miss playing TF2 with many of the regs on #1 but I probably won't bother now. I guess that will make all the people that whine about my body shots happy at least so i guess thats good for srs business as well. No one likes a body shotting sniper.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:08 am Post subject: No icon Re: Votecrit has been implemented! (discussion) Reply with quote

Huwajux wrote (View Post):
I_am_terrible wrote (View Post):
I have to say im pretty disappointed this has been implemented i think crits were fine.


Then you can vote for them. This isn't a complete disabling of random crits, but rather an opportunity to appeal to those playing at the time.


doesnt work if people who like crits are in the minority - that is evidenced by the lack of crits enabled on the server over the last few days.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 10:08 am Post subject: No icon Re: Votecrit has been implemented! (discussion) Reply with quote

I_am_terrible wrote (View Post):

You may not have found any difference but recently I've found that the server is just less fun to play on it seems to be far more about TF2 being serious business with loads of 5cp maps and now the crit vote. I play TF2 because it was fun to mess around and a lot of the people on THG were a laugh and friendly. Now it seems #1 is leaning towards catering for the more competitive end of the TF2 spectrum which i certainly don't enjoy.

Its a shame as ill miss playing TF2 with many of the regs on #1 but I probably won't bother now. I guess that will make all the people that whine about my body shots happy at least so i guess thats good for srs business as well. No one likes a body shotting sniper.


I completely agree with this. I've been playing on THG for 7 years now (geez I'm getting old) and in the last year it's just a lot less fun. Attitudes really have shifted from silly and fun to something much more serious.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 10:53 am Post subject: No icon Re: Votecrit has been implemented! (discussion) Reply with quote

AMT wrote (View Post):

TF2 is a 9 year old game, most regulars aren't here because of TF2 they are here for THG, that's my opinion.


I agree these days we are a great community THG, however TF2 is still a great game and you guys and gals are the best mannered, politest maturest bunch of members any community could wish for!!!! and as Carlos stated we already kinda know how this will go down as some will already know by going though this post or searching crits, Please take into account how we THG have always worked and how we as a majority within the community like to play "mostly for fun" which keeps "most of us" happy, which is also 1 of the hardest things in any community making all happy "its impossible".

We do give you all a say and we do trial things like now! "even when/if we have done it many times before" we are and try to be always fair!

We just have to be aware that somethings should just be left and that somethings we should try to agree on. That's what helps makes us a strong community. I know this due to a few disarrangements within THGs life to this day  Wink

Anyway please keep things civil and look at valve for what they are causing here not THG we didn't make the game we made a THG player base that plays the game/s..
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:15 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Votecrit has been implemented! (discussion) Reply with quote

Huwajux wrote (View Post):
I am not familiar with HH at all since I did not come from there, but a simple critvote is not going to cause any drastic changes to what makes the server what it is. I've been playing every day for several hours ever since the votecrit was put in place and no discernible difference seems to have been made. Outputting unjustified pessimism and doomsaying like this isn't good for anyone, nor does it really hold anything of value to address, since the points made are completely intangible.


I remember, a couple of years ago HH#1 had crits disabled by default. On a weekend you could play on a full server from 2:00pm til midnight, mostly cp maps... It just depends on the people. That's why I also suggested a critsvote last year. But it won't work on THG.
This isn't just about crits. If you disabled crits without saying anything, how many would even notice? All it does is shift the community towards a more competitive mindset, and you are going to lose more and more players over time. It has already begun, and we aren't even out of the test phase.

Also, I've just gotton used to random crits and was trying to counter them with the vaccinator. (▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿)
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:26 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Votecrit has been implemented! (discussion) Reply with quote

AMT wrote (View Post):
I was about to write a lot of stuff but everyone said almost everything I wanted to say and I will add this


Nothing of value has yet to be stated. It's all prophecies of how the community is going to die since there is now an opportunity for people to choose to disable crits. Their effect is simply being played up as being "the essence" of THG and other senseless rhetoric that has no substantiated proof or reasoning behind it other than being the emotional wailing of those who are upset that the majority of players don't actually enjoy random crits. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but if people are going to use emotional bludgeoning to try and get their way rather than looking at things from a unbiased perspective then there really is no other way to drive the point home.


AMT wrote (View Post):
THG was always about the community but this changed (My guess it happened after THG & HH started doing event together) and THG started getting more skilled players than we used to, for me this is obvious because of the votes for 5cp maps, 5cp maps were never that popular in THG except for the last year or so, we always tried new maps and did customs maps but I don't remember playing 5cp as much as we do now and skilled players like those maps.
That's why we always have to try to keep that balance because THG survive by having a full server not skilled players.


THG is still about the community considering this entire ordeal is about giving the community a say in what they want. It's a net positive to any other alternative, and unless you can provide something that satisfies even more people than the majority, then it's the best we have. Trying to twist this in a way where the majority of the community somehow supports your viewpoint is disingenuous, considering that they seem to feel the complete opposite way.


AMT wrote (View Post):
I never like using the idea of democracy as it makes people feel "if its a democracy thing then its good", I can give you an example of a vote if we used in the server will drive some people away: "All talk", a vote for all talk will almost always be to "turn it on" because most of them want to have fun but we know some players don't like it so we don't.


All talk is different in that there are other avenues superior to a democratic vote. Those who enjoy all-talk can join mumble and achieve that experience, and those who don't can simply keep their voiced communication to their team in-game. This way everyone is satisfied and provided an option that suits their preferences.

With regards to the critvote however, it has already been pointed out that democracy isn't perfect, but if your alternative is to brute force the setting so that you get to play how you like it and others don't, I think that says more than I ever could.


AMT wrote (View Post):
Huwa you talked about "unjustified doomsaying" but the server is only going for 4 hours a day and it needs to be full during those hours, that't not easy, all it takes is you lose a certain number of players at the same time and you got a dead server.
TF2 is a 9 year old game, most regulars aren't here because of TF2 they are here for THG, that's my opinion.


I can sympathise with your concerns here, but again crits are being played up as some sort of be-all-end-all to what makes THG what it is. I'm not sure if this is a result of something in the past (before my time), where the debate has gone on for so long that people have polarised themselves to the point of non-sensical extremes, but in order for a proper discussion to take place you have to detach yourself from this and look at it from an impartial perspective.


I_am_terrible wrote (View Post):
You may not have found any difference but recently I've found that the server is just less fun to play on it seems to be far more about TF2 being serious business with loads of 5cp maps and now the crit vote. I play TF2 because it was fun to mess around and a lot of the people on THG were a laugh and friendly. Now it seems #1 is leaning towards catering for the more competitive end of the TF2 spectrum which i certainly don't enjoy.

Its a shame as ill miss playing TF2 with many of the regs on #1 but I probably won't bother now. I guess that will make all the people that whine about my body shots happy at least so i guess thats good for srs business as well. No one likes a body shotting sniper.


This is just more hearsay and conjecture. While I will give you that 5cp maps have become more popular than at least when I first joined, this is an entirely different discussion to be had and irrelevant to the critvote. If you're going to throw your toys out of the pram with stuff like "If crits aren't put back then I'm leaving!", then you're only further displaying that your response to this is nothing more than emotional whiplash from a long-standing setting being overturned and going against what you want, despite it being in the community's best interests.


aerynsun wrote (View Post):
doesnt work if people who like crits are in the minority - that is evidenced by the lack of crits enabled on the server over the last few days.


That's exactly how it's supposed to work. I'm going to keep repeating this until the point is driven home, but the vote doesn't become undemocratic just because you don't get your way. I've laid out points (several times now) as to why this is the best system available to us. I've even opened up the floor for others to put forward a superior alternative, and been met with nothing. If people want to stamp their feet and throw a tantrum about them not getting what they want 100% of the time then this thread is not the place for it.


binksy wrote (View Post):
I agree these days we are a great community THG, however TF2 is still a great game and you guys and gals are the best mannered, politest maturest bunch of members any community could wish for!!!! and as Carlos stated we already kinda know how this will go down as some will already know by going though this post or searching crits, Please take into account how we THG have always worked and how we as a majority within the community like to play "mostly for fun" which keeps "most of us" happy, which is also 1 of the hardest things in any community making all happy "its impossible".


I agree that we are indeed a community filled with wonderful people. Even now, with those I argue against, I still consider them my friends. This is obviously a topic that both sides are passionate about, and is why I went ahead and made this thread. You and Carlos claim that history is bound to repeat itself, and that is why I'm trying to help prevent that, since I believe those who dislike crits have always been disenfranchised and pushed to the sideline at the will of a few. The critvote swinging strongly against random crits on a consistent basis is a testament to that belief, and I'd rather not see emotionally-fuelled people bullying their way into getting what they want without taking into account the facts laid out before us.

You're also completely right that making everyone happy is an impossible task, which is why I can obviously understand the discontent that some members of the community are experiencing. This vote has provided us with a way to satisfy as many people as possible, while still being flexible enough that it is never set in stone. Any other option or method falls short of it, and will end up satisfying far less people overall.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:39 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Votecrit has been implemented! (discussion) Reply with quote

you are now crossing swords with admins and the server owner huw, the one thing you dont know is the history of THG and how it has ended in the past, I believe you dont quite get the meaning of what binksy said when he said "history repeating itself" - you have only been a member of the community for a year, and while you are clearly a member of a debating society somewhere i think you should now be aware that it isnt just a few community members you are telling how the server should be run.

as far as disenfranchising the many for the sake of the few - if it was that awful - why are people still here?  and bullying??really???  if you start a discussion on something that people feel passionate about you have to take the good with the bad.  you cannot have it all one way.

you should be aware, it is still being discussed in the admin section and nothing is off the table yet.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:45 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Votecrit has been implemented! (discussion) Reply with quote

What you have to realise is that a lot of people join because they like the people. THG #2 was set up as a no crit server with lots of cp maps for the people that prefer that. The people that didn't want that stayed on #1 and then the people that were vocal in support of no crit could have gone to #2 didn't bother either. So why should this be any different now, instead you are enforcing a decision on a number of people that don't want it because you have a slight majority. Unfortunately a number of the small majority are some of the long term regulars. Which you now are aiming to alienate.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:04 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Votecrit has been implemented! (discussion) Reply with quote

Huwa random crit vote won't start the end of THG what I am saying THG already is changing from being a fun community, I am not the only old member who is saying that, THG was never static its changing with time, I was here when THG had a rtd Sunday, but those changes were always part of the fun part of THG, we always had people leave, we had people come back, I stopped playing TF2 3-4 times but every time I came back THG felt the same, but recently its getting more competitive and serious than fun and that's my main concern.
But you are also right, this topic isn't about that its about random crit vote, it just came at a time when some are already frustrated about the situation.

I don't care about random crits, I rarely notice them, but this subject was discussed many times before and I reached the conclusion that it should always stay as what valve made it.
Looking at this thread I am surprised how many skilled players are asking for it to stay on, and it annoys me that it feels like we are all against you, those who want the vote should be here to voice their concern, just saying they are the majority isn't enough, if they don't care enough to come here and talk about it then they shouldn't be moaning about it in the server.

I agree about all talk, its impact is different.

Quote:
I believe those who dislike crits have always been disenfranchised and pushed to the sideline at the will of a few.

That statement is false, this isn't the first time we discussed this topic I definitely remember a vote to disable it, why it didn't stay that way I don't remember, maybe if some members do remember they can tell us.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:54 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Votecrit has been implemented! (discussion) Reply with quote

aerynsun wrote (View Post):
you are now crossing swords with admins and the server owner huw, the one thing you dont know is the history of THG and how it has ended in the past


Authority does not dictate who is right or wrong, but rather what does or doesn't happen. If Binksy or whoever decided to completely ignore any and all factual feedback from the trial and chose to keep random crits as a permanent thing, then he's perfectly within his right to do so. This thread was brought up under the impression that the community's opinion matters, but if the admins' opinions are deemed of far greater importance, then perhaps we should cease this facade and the illusion of choice should be nipped in the bud.

As for the past, I fail to see how that is relevant. I'm not sure how it ties into the critvote whatsoever, and you've failed to mention how this would in any way be the case. What matters is now and the future.


aerynsun wrote (View Post):
I believe you dont quite get the meaning of what binksy said when he said "history repeating itself" - you have only been a member of the community for a year, and while you are clearly a member of a debating society somewhere i think you should now be aware that it isnt just a few community members you are telling how the server should be run.


If by being a member of a debating society you mean not resorting to emotional appeals, then yes I've been an active member of that society for some time now. Crass insults aimed at me rather than the points I bring forth only make your argument seem like it has even less of a leg to stand on. Neither am I telling anyone how to run anything. I've put forward reasons for why this critvote is the best solution to the random crit issue and absolutely nothing has been addressed against them. There have been no tangible counterpoints, no alternate solutions, nothing. All that has come about from it are wild exaggerations of what people think that might happen, with absolutely no foundation in facts or reality at all.


aerynsun wrote (View Post):
as far as disenfranchising the many for the sake of the few - if it was that awful - why are people still here?  and bullying??really???  if you start a discussion on something that people feel passionate about you have to take the good with the bad.  you cannot have it all one way.


Yes, bullying, much like you've done in this exact post of yours. You've warned me that I'm crossing the admins here, either in an attempt to get me to back down, or to try and 'convince' me to dilute my own position so that yours seems less flimsy. This is quite an overt case of it, but beforehand I was referring mostly to the emotional appeals people are making about how crits are "part of THG", and anyone who goes against that must surely be out of touch and labelled as such. That's precisely what you're doing when you claim that I've only been here for a year or so, and so that somehow invalidates my completely reasoned points.


I_am_terrible wrote (View Post):
What you have to realise is that a lot of people join because they like the people. THG #2 was set up as a no crit server with lots of cp maps for the people that prefer that. The people that didn't want that stayed on #1 and then the people that were vocal in support of no crit could have gone to #2 didn't bother either. So why should this be any different now, instead you are enforcing a decision on a number of people that don't want it because you have a slight majority. Unfortunately a number of the small majority are some of the long term regulars. Which you now are aiming to alienate.


That is in fact precisely the reason I join too; because I like the people. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here though. You make it a point of how nobody joined #2, whilst immediately before you note how people play on THG primarily for the community. Fracturing the playerbase over two servers is going to do far more harm than any critvote ever would.

Prior to the critvote, random crits were also forced on a number of people that didn't want them either, and yet you've made no effort to address this. Back then there wasn't a vote in place to  even give the chance of disabling them. Now that this 'unfairness' has come to light because you're on the other end of it, you can't stand idly by this injustice anymore?

How on earth are people going to be alienated from a lack of random crits? You yourself state that people play primarily for the community. This is just more excessive emphasis being placed on random crits as the thing that 'defines' THG.


AMT wrote (View Post):
Huwa random crit vote won't start the end of THG what I am saying THG already is changing from being a fun community, I am not the only old member who is saying that, THG was never static its changing with time, I was here when THG had a rtd Sunday, but those changes were always part of the fun part of THG, we always had people leave, we had people come back, I stopped playing TF2 3-4 times but every time I came back THG felt the same, but recently its getting more competitive and serious than fun and that's my main concern.
But you are also right, this topic isn't about that its about random crit vote, it just came at a time when some are already frustrated about the situation.


I do understand your concern, and I'm not saying that just to placate you. THG is a server filled with both intense teamwork/communication and intense silliness. The balance between the two is what I believe is part of the appeal. From one moment you can go around being a crazed demopan taunting after every kill, and the next you can be trying your ass off as a medic, attempting to co-ordinate a push over voice chat. That's the real beauty of THG, and I don't feel it gets enough credit. Boiling it down to the result of random crits existing is something I feel is very far off the mark, and instead is something I believe is innately tied into the community regardless of that.


AMT wrote (View Post):
Looking at this thread I am surprised how many skilled players are asking for it to stay on, and it annoys me that it feels like we are all against you, those who want the vote should be here to voice their concern, just saying they are the majority isn't enough, if they don't care enough to come here and talk about it then they shouldn't be moaning about it in the server.


Saying it's the majority is indeed enough. This is a gameplay mechanic implementation, not a philosophical/political debate of ideals. The majority are the people it affects the most, and while I've acknowledged that it is not a perfect system, the people that are actually playing have been given the power in this matter. This is the fairest and most flexible system available to us that satisfies the most amount of people whenever possible. That is true, and will remain true, no matter how much others may view it differently.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 10:07 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Votecrit has been implemented! (discussion) Reply with quote

Oh jeez, not this again.... If you look up in the TF2 section on the forums and search for crits, there are like 7/8 more topics like this. And i think most of them had the same solutions and discussion right now.
It makes me really sad how much discussion this dusty topic comes up with, from both parties really.

We should all just agree to at least try it. It pains no one to give it a go for a couple of weeks, and after that bring the original settings back so the cool admins and popular guys can discuss it how it went. Is that big of deal?

If it didn't worked out like the way they wanted it, i suggest a couple rounds of beer next time in Amsterdam. Dave?


On the other hand, this is a core game mechanic, why should we remove it? If you get triggered by a lucky shot, maybe this isn't the game for you.

We can make a statement how the TF2 community can die from this and leaving players, but we can't say that for sure. People leave all the time and they are replaced with other people. I haven't been on the THG TF2 server for a couple of months now with the release of Overwatch. Do you miss a standard 1 player slot now? I don't think so.
What we can predict is that there will be shift in the player base from "Fun based" to "Comp based" which we should avoid at all cost.
We had a more "competitive server" #2, which wasn't used for some unknown reason.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 10:25 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Votecrit has been implemented! (discussion) Reply with quote

Not to reiterate old arguments so just giving my personal preference:

I like the crit vote, especially with the melee crits on always.

Currently voting on, but can see myself changing at times. So far all games I've played they've been off so that seems popular.

I can play with it either way really. Maybe slightly in favor of off since it removes some frustrations at times. But with it on it benefits demo a lot so hard to complain...

Kaboom :)
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