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Pl_Pier_b20 feedback for mapmaker

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:24 pm Post subject: No icon Pl_Pier_b20 feedback for mapmaker Reply with quote

Hello everyone, a few weeks ago Dav and Binksy kindly upgraded Pl_pier to beta 20, and i asked the mapmaker, Blade X64, as we're a tasteful and gentlemanly community Wink , if he was interested in some feedback from us and he said yes:

"I'd like feedback on how the map plays. What parts are fun/interesting, what parts are not so good and why. Is there fair opportunity for all classes throughout the map? Thoughts on the new final would help too since I did make major changes to it. Any suggestions on what to add or change I'd be open to those too, especially if there's good reasoning behind it. The more in-depth with any feedback, the better. Examples, observations, etc.
Any kind of feedback is welcome though, just so long as it has sufficient reasoning or explanation."

Don't hesitate to post your feedback cause i think for him, the more people post, the better.
Here's mine:


I play mainly medic, from my pov, i have to admit i was not a big fan of the map in its b16 version and that was mainly because of the stuttering bugs near the stairs of cap A and near the wall of cap B, the general design of cap C, and last cap.

But i have to say i really enjoy b20, stuttering stairs are gone, all the cap points are fun to attack or defend, overall, it seems to me that the map is well "balanced" and fun to play.

I really like what you did on cap C. In b_16 it was really hard to attack that point and it was too easy for Red to get and keep, the height advantage, now it seems a bit easier for blu to go upstairs and attack and i like the fact that you add a ramp so we can get out of the water.

I also much much more prefer the design of final cap point in b20, the fact that you added the acces from the beach and changed the emplacements of the crates makes it flow much, much better, and the fact that red have a chance of stopping the cart from falling if they attack it from inside the building even if it's under used.


Just a quick word on the aesthetics, i honeslty think this is one of the most of the best looking map, i like the fact you added a lot of custom models and textures, and also, the fireworks at the end :)

The little shooting stands you added at last stage are also really nice, i wish it would actully trigger something in the map if you shot targets correctly but may be players would be too distracted by it, cause in the end...Pushing little cart is all that matters !!!!

i honestly don't remember if the wheel was here in b16 but i love it.

Suggestions: (mainly bad ones...):

-have the cart go through the beach a little near blu spawn:

-add an acces path to C cap building through the water on the blu side:

-create a possibility for blu to make the cart go right instead of left if..."condition" is true...

-prevent blu from getting inside this corridor close to red spawn, also sometimes red don't realize that they
can get out of spawn if they turn left and enter the building from sliding door, what i mean is that it's not "obvious".

-make the hole in the rock higher (thinking about this in reference to the way valve modified blu right flank on the cap point 2 of pl_goldrush first stage a long time ago.):


-A player called Goreston, said there was a hole in the map, i took a pic of it, and i must say that yesterday i started stuttering a little with my uber so i don't know if it's related but i wanted to let you know.

-Found a "no texture" element in the map, but not sure if everyone has the same issue.

Finally i know, Blade would have liked to get stv demos from our plays, as we have replays enabled, that is not possible but, maybe if we play Pier next time we play a match, he would have acces to demos as i think server 3 has stv demos enabled? May be Mig, Dav or Binksy could confirm this or not as i'm not sure on this one.

Hope that many more people will post,


Last edited by Kaibz on Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:23 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:30 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Pl_Pier_b20 feedback for mapmaker Reply with quote

loved it, much better and more open no glitches -  Very Happy  Very Happy excellent comments from Kaibz,  could we possible have the fireworks back please ....... Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:12 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Pl_Pier_b20 feedback for mapmaker Reply with quote

Just hopped on tf2 to play pl_pier all by myself =(

Just a few things:
Second point- There is a truck that seems slightly out of place in my opinion. It certainly benefits defending team since it offers cover. But there is something in my head that screams, that truck shouldn't be there. Perhaps replace it with some crates?

Third point- On attack you can now explosive jump onto the balcony on the left side without slamming your face into an invisible wall (Yay I approve!). However a closed sliding door might not give the attackers the impression that they can use this as an option to attack. Either remove the sliding door so it becomes VERY obvious or add an arrow sign that indicates the door can be used. I personally think putting an -> symbol on top of the left balcony pointing towards the closed sliding door will do the trick.  

Last point- On attack, you can flank to the right by going to the right wooden house and drop in. If you look further right before entering and dropping in, there is another wooden platform that suggest you can jump onto and perform a super cheeky rear attack, but there is an invisible wall! Im guessing super cheeky rear attack is not possible so please remove those wooden platforms, since it gave me the impression I can use them.
I put a screenshot of this later if this description doesn't help, but all you have to do is keep looking right and you will seen another wooden platform.  

Furthermore upon dropping down onto the right house, if you move slightly forward and turn right, you will see some stairs going up to the 1st floor. Problem here is there is nothing to do once you get to the first floor, you can certainly shoot people going for the ammo and health kit, but your kinda stuck there. Previous version, you can move towards their spawn which allowed you to get out of the right house, but in this version, its not much value to the attackers.
Most defenders I see don't use that spot, since they roam around the health and ammo kit, which is at the ground floor.  

Well there is my feedback, overall I feel the map is good, certainly a lot better in terms of performance then that cp custom map valve put into the game!
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:19 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Pl_Pier_b20 feedback for mapmaker Reply with quote

Next to the second blu spawn there is a small stutter (as goreston pointed out)
No fireworks on blu win - plenty of people commented on lack of them compared to b16.

Map changes:
cart shutter doors/walkway around C - It's quite hard to shoot up from the door to the walkway with arc'd weapons (grenades/stickies/etc) as they hit the rolled back shutters instead.  If this is not intentional, could the shutters either roll straight up (i.e. next to the wall) or the rolled up shutter's be flush underneath the walkway, instead of the gap?

The floor being lowered next to the vending machines at B results in fall damage being taken by blu players taking the newly opened route once B has been capped.  As there are steps up to the hole to drop through, could these not be flattened out to compensate for the landing now being lower and less head room is needed?

Edit: tided up image display

Kaibz wrote (View Post):
-Found a "no texture" element in the map, but not sure if everyone has the same issue.

I see the element just fine.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:52 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Pl_Pier_b20 feedback for mapmaker Reply with quote

Not really a fan of the final cap changes since the last version we had on the server. The new bit below that allows you to get around the back tends to favour the defenders more than anything, as it either splits up the attack (who struggle to get round that corner as it is), or allows the defenders to sneak behind and do some real damage.

Opening up the back by the reds spawn doesn't help either, as is gives snipers a much easier time of it. And if you have real good snipers, as we do on THG, it's real hard to get people to push in and apply pressure.

Not sure what you could change to fix it, but if you kept the new lower bit the same, it would probably be a good idea to look at tweaking the right area (from the attacks point of view), allowing them to push in and and apply pressure from another angle. Right now, it's a bit easy for the defending team to hold anyone off going through that area. Perhaps making that area higher ground would help. You could raise it slightly and then force the red team to do a slight trick jump to get up to it such as the way jumping on the sign on dustbowl stage 2.2 works, as that would slow the reds holding that area a bit more. Or if you made it all the height of the top bit at the back and make it more in to an attic that looks down on to the reds area (and give reds access to it from a staircase right at the back). Not sure how well that would work balance wise, but any kind of vertical geometry would be good as it makes for much better fights and that should be taken in to account.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:53 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Pl_Pier_b20 feedback for mapmaker Reply with quote

The new version seems better balanced with more options to flank and such, however, on the final cap the stairs are moved to the back. This removes entry on the the main choke point (the second to last corner) on the final cap. The stairs in the back can now be blocked by a red engi, making this an even harder to push properly. Maybe some boxes to jump on or easier access to the big rock on the beach would help...
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