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THG#2 suggestions
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zzzzzzzzzz
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:49 pm Post subject: No icon THG#2 suggestions Reply with quote

Hello,

consider the following potential changes to the critvote server:

- melee crits turned off when crits have been voted off. We know why melee crits were kept on THG#1 when we were trying out the critvote, but now we have an extra server dedicated to being what "the other half" of THG wanted during all that random crits debate. From what I can tell people do not want melee crits on THG#2. Let me know if that's not the case, but so far all I've seen is complaints about melee crits, and nobody trying to argue to keep them.

- "tf_use_fixed_weaponspreads 1". ("Enables fixed bullet spread (for hitscan weapons like the Scattergun or the Shotgun)"). This is a small change that would mainly make playing scout a bit more enjoyable. It just makes bullets from shotguns-type weapons not scatter _randomly_ each shot (but in a 3 by 3 grid). I can't think of a reason to NOT have this on.

I was also thinking about better round limits for 5CP maps (such that 5CP maps don't end in a 1-1 but rather 2-0 or 2-1, best of 3 like), but from  what I've read about server configs this would require some work. (I don't guarantee that any of the following is accurate) Settings mp_winlimit and mp_maxrounds accordingly (2 and 3) would, as far as I can tell, mess up payload map round limits. The solution to that would be adding a "mapname.cfg" for EACH map such that pl maps keep their maxrounds 2. If you have a map-name list you'd just script something to write those cfgs for you based on pl_ or cp_ in the map name, but that's not enough since only some cp maps are 5cp, while other cp maps such as gravelpit and dustbowl should have unchanged round limits, and who knows about the more exotic gamemodes that may be found in the custom maps.
Rounds limits as they are aren't the end of the world, so unless you're bored enough or know about an easy solution, don't worry about it.

- Maybe limit engie to 2? Hoping to get some input from others on that one.

Sincerely,

Frank.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:18 am Post subject: No icon Re: THG#2 suggestions Reply with quote

zzzzzzzzzz wrote (View Post):
Hello,

consider the following potential changes to the critvote server:

- melee crits turned off when crits have been voted off. We know why melee crits were kept on THG#1 when we were trying out the critvote, but now we have an extra server dedicated to being what "the other half" of THG wanted during all that random crits debate. From what I can tell people do not want melee crits on THG#2. Let me know if that's not the case, but so far all I've seen is complaints about melee crits, and nobody trying to argue to keep them.

- "tf_use_fixed_weaponspreads 1". ("Enables fixed bullet spread (for hitscan weapons like the Scattergun or the Shotgun)"). This is a small change that would mainly make playing scout a bit more enjoyable. It just makes bullets from shotguns-type weapons not scatter _randomly_ each shot (but in a 3 by 3 grid). I can't think of a reason to NOT have this on.

I was also thinking about better round limits for 5CP maps (such that 5CP maps don't end in a 1-1 but rather 2-0 or 2-1, best of 3 like), but from  what I've read about server configs this would require some work. (I don't guarantee that any of the following is accurate) Settings mp_winlimit and mp_maxrounds accordingly (2 and 3) would, as far as I can tell, mess up payload map round limits. The solution to that would be adding a "mapname.cfg" for EACH map such that pl maps keep their maxrounds 2. If you have a map-name list you'd just script something to write those cfgs for you based on pl_ or cp_ in the map name, but that's not enough since only some cp maps are 5cp, while other cp maps such as gravelpit and dustbowl should have unchanged round limits, and who knows about the more exotic gamemodes that may be found in the custom maps.
Rounds limits as they are aren't the end of the world, so unless you're bored enough or know about an easy solution, don't worry about it.

- Maybe limit engie to 2? Hoping to get some input from others on that one.

Sincerely,

Frank.


Well where to start! I guess with a welcome to the forums since this is your 1st post! so yeah welcome zzzz  Twisted Evil

Yes I agree "that's just me atm though" meele crits should prob go off now with the crit vote. I shall mention this to dav as he set this up or he can read and do it when he's home Smile If not ill look to do this asap..

tf_weaponspreads enabled is mainly for 6v6 and PRO matches making the scout and any shotgun over powered to help with class balancing for 6v6s mainly "I guess or imho" so with that in mind I don't agree this would be best on a 28 slot server so I'm all for leave it alone for now. I'm not sure on other admins thoughts though..

The round limit has been increased to 3 for now..

Thats all for now I think this should help and seems better for that server ATM Smile
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zzzzzzzzzz
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:46 pm Post subject: No icon Re: THG#2 suggestions Reply with quote

@binsky

Quote:
The round limit has been increased to 3 for now..

This doesn't work for the reasons I explained in my first post. PL maps now have 3 rounds instead of 2.

For weaponspread:
1) I think the reason it's on in 'competitive' is not because it makes scout 'overpowered' (it doesn't suddenly make scouts hit 100 dmg shots all over the place from any range at any time), but because it's stupid for anyone to take a shot and pray to the gods for a pellet distribution that's on target or conversely die/not die to a scout because luck says so. However:

2) Indeed it makes scout a little more powerful simply by allowing players to know where to aim and thus have a more consistent feeling for their aim. BUT:

3) THG might be one of the last places where this small change would make scout 'overpowered'. It's not unusual to find yourself facing a team of three 300-health soldiers, three demos, two engineers (*puke*) and two constantly buffed heavies. I'd say a lot of the time scout is on average one of the weakest classes in the context of our servers, I'm sure my fellow regular gamers will agree that when you see 3 scouts on your team on a payload map you're ready to get rolled in 5 minutes. Sure on 5CP maps scout can be one of the leading classes, but on those there's also a lot of scout vs scout action going on, and that's totally affected by luck/unfairness with random weaponspread.

4) I'm not the only one who's interested in having this change implemented.

NEW ISSUE:
Unrelated to that, I wonder if the critvote can feature an "Abstain" option, which would also be the default for any new player joining the server.
- it allows people who don't care whether or not crits are on to be impartial and not influence the vote.
- it eliminates bias toward the "default" option that's selected for any new player, there will always be players joining who aren't aware of the vote (or forget about it) influencing the outcome without having given their opinion.
Which plugin do you use? If that's not an available feature maybe we can implement it ourselves (if it's open).
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 12:39 am Post subject: No icon Re: THG#2 suggestions Reply with quote

Can you also enable freeze time explosive jumping. Having nerds push you around as you try to rollout is super annoying and being able to jump during freeze time would fix this.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 12:49 am Post subject: No icon Re: THG#2 suggestions Reply with quote

Yeah may be now would be a good time to disable random crits on melee weapons as it sometimes makes new players on the server ask "i don't understand i thought crits were off, but i got killed by a crit!?" so it would make sens to get rid of it.

I've heard a lot of good things about "fixed_weaponspreads 1" but i'm especially interested if it can bring more players to the server once the word is out...As server 2 is open to experimentation, i suppose we could try it for a week or more and see how regulars and other players react and take a decision if we keep it or not ?
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carlos
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 4:28 pm Post subject: No icon Re: THG#2 suggestions Reply with quote

how about a vote crit on #2 ? would that work? or should it be off completely making it more for peeps that know what there doing!
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:14 pm Post subject: No icon Re: THG#2 suggestions Reply with quote

Sorry for not having replied to this sooner. I initially stayed out of it to see the posts, then I've been busy, then I forgot  Embarassed

In any case, regarding the melee crits, it seems there is some server-side support for this, even if there hasn't been too much activity on the forums. I can make this change tomorrow night (such that melee crits follow the crit-vote) and can see how it goes. If this is a terrible idea, now is the time to speak!

Regarding the fixed weapon spread, I've no real strong opinions on it. I'm willing to go with the majority feeling here and / or give it a go and see what happens. Anyone else have thoughts?

There's now map configs on the server for setting the maxrounds / winlimit / time limit, thanks to Binksy. If there's any tweaks required let me know or post here. Derfy's also kindly put together a script to allow us to generate the configs in future if need be. I've tweaked it slightly and plan to take full credit  Twisted Evil

HiMom wrote (View Post):
Can you also enable freeze time explosive jumping. Having nerds push you around as you try to rollout is super annoying and being able to jump during freeze time would fix this.


If you can link ( Laughing ) me the command, I'll make this change as it's low impact.

Finally zzzzzz, we do have the plugin source so in theory we can make tweaks to the functionality. What changes to make and how to implement them is different problem.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:38 pm Post subject: No icon Re: THG#2 suggestions Reply with quote

you can take all the credit for messing up cp_foundry DaV Smile  It's set to something more then winlimit 2 as we're currently playing on round 3 with one team winning 2-0.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:27 pm Post subject: No icon Re: THG#2 suggestions Reply with quote

I'll take a look! I haven't uploaded any of the configurations we generated though.

It's was set to zero (recommended by Linc!) I think it'll need to set to 2? Should it be like this for all CP maps that aren't attack/defend?

In other news, I've updated the crit-vote plugin such that melee crits now follow the crit-vote setting. Any issues let me know.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:02 am Post subject: No icon Re: THG#2 suggestions Reply with quote

Quote:
I think it'll need to set to 2?


winlimit 0 = play as many rounds as maxrounds or as long as timelimit.
Setting winlimit to 2 with maxrounds 3 results in a best of 3 type scenario - first team to 2 rounds wins. What matters is to decide what's better e.g. whether or not playing 3 rounds on cp, no matter what, may or may not "drag" on average, but the best way to find out is to just roll with it and see if people complain about how long maps go on.
Note again that those settings can be applied to KOTH maps as well. (symmetric)

Quote:
I've updated the crit-vote plugin such that melee crits now follow the crit-vote setting


TMYK: note that tf2 itself gives you that functionality:
Quote:
tf_weapon_criticals_melee - Controls random crits for melee weapons. 0 - Melee weapons do not randomly crit. 1 - Melee weapons can randomly crit only if tf_weapon_criticals is also enabled. 2 - Melee weapons can always randomly crit regardless of the tf_weapon_criticals setting.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:05 am Post subject: No icon Re: THG#2 suggestions Reply with quote

zzzzzzzzzz wrote (View Post):
TMYK: note that tf2 itself gives you that functionality: tf_weapon_criticals_melee - Controls random crits for melee weapons. 0 - Melee weapons do not randomly crit. 1 - Melee weapons can randomly crit only if tf_weapon_criticals is also enabled. 2 - Melee weapons can always randomly crit regardless of the tf_weapon_criticals setting.


Yes, that's the exact setting I was using. Previously it was set to 2, now it's set to 1  Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:36 pm Post subject: No icon Re: THG#2 suggestions Reply with quote

Im so so sooooo happy that you finally made changes with "freeze time" after round start.
But there is one thing that many of Us (regular players) want to see on Teamwork server:
Code:
tf_avoidteammates_pushaway 0

Everyone who played Real Competitive (not Valve's Matchmaking) know how much annoying it is when people are pushing you durning your Rollout.
Please, set this one simple cvar (value for Not-Push is 0).
Cheers
---------------------------------------------------------
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:36 pm Post subject: No icon Re: THG#2 suggestions Reply with quote

Im not really sure if this is the right topic but anyways ,

Im getting +60 ping for no reason when the server starts to get full since the server moved to different host. When i was getting 180 ping in thg servers i looked up to different france servers at the same time and it was showing maximum 90 ping. So its only for thg servers.

Im sure this can be fixed with my network provider (in turkey most network providers are trash) but right now i can't change it due to infrastructure cables being so old. But i was not getting this problem with the same network provider with the old servers. I'll try to do something with my net but i hope you guys can do something about it too.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:19 pm Post subject: No icon Re: THG#2 suggestions Reply with quote

...


Last edited by olshi on Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:57 am Post subject: No icon Re: THG#2 suggestions Reply with quote

Avaray wrote (View Post):

Im so so sooooo happy that you finally made changes with "freeze time" after round start.
But there is one thing that many of Us (regular players) want to see on Teamwork server:
Code:
tf_avoidteammates_pushaway 0

Everyone who played Real Competitive (not Valve's Matchmaking) know how much annoying it is when people are pushing you durning your Rollout.
Please, set this one simple cvar (value for Not-Push is 0).
Cheers


Not so sure with this never used it before also it would need more feedback before it could be discussed or implemented  Confused

klewn wrote (View Post):
Im not really sure if this is the right topic but anyways ,

Im getting +60 ping for no reason when the server starts to get full since the server moved to different host. When i was getting 180 ping in thg servers i looked up to different france servers at the same time and it was showing maximum 90 ping. So its only for thg servers.

Im sure this can be fixed with my network provider (in turkey most network providers are trash) but right now i can't change it due to infrastructure cables being so old. But i was not getting this problem with the same network provider with the old servers. I'll try to do something with my net but i hope you guys can do something about it too.


Could be a routing issue which usually resolves its self keep me updated...

olshi wrote (View Post):

I have 2 suggestions:

1) Remove cp_granary. We already have cp_granary_pro.

2) Remove the critsvote. Crits should be off by default.

Idea


Yes granary could come off the maplist/mapcycle/nominate files however It can't be removed as its a stock map every update or possible restart it would add the map back again Smile.

I am all with removing the crit vote if others are also happy with this since its usually off 99% of the time right?
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