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Team Stacking..
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Hemsk
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:15 pm Post subject: No icon Team Stacking.. Reply with quote

Rather than just continue to bitch about something in game that really gets under my skin, i thought id post here! Team Stacking really takes the shine off THG servers sometimes. Its not very polite to name names but since everyone who has heard me bitch knows who i mean, ill name names anyway - Shake and Kaibz. I get they are friends and like playing together, thats lovely, but they are also both really good players. On their own thats not so much of a problem but then if you get a burzum/cixzer/other randomly good player also on blue its a block that can often carry a whole team. I do not know if there are others who also team stack with them, i suspect there are but its hard to tell.

Its just not much fun and frankly not very sporting. They are both nice guys and obviously very good players but the whole stacking thing really doesnt seem in the spirit of the THG server (which is, generally speaking, a fantastic spirit). Basically what i'm asking is, are the THG admins interested at all in this issue or should i just get over it? I'm OK with the latter but it would be nice to know where y'all stand.
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carlos
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:29 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Team Stacking.. Reply with quote

aerynsun is probably the one who can sort this  or some other admin who plays on there alot.

If it is an issue i am sure they will try and sort it for you Smile
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Hemsk
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:39 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Team Stacking.. Reply with quote

Just to follow up on my own post and prove that im not a complete bitch, ive chatted directly with Kaibz on steam (and tried with Shake, but hes offline). I didnt want to just post behind their backs, so to speak. I believe they will be coming to the forums at some point to have their say.
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 9:34 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Team Stacking.. Reply with quote

Hey Hemsk,

As i was telling you, Shake and i have been friends for a long time and we like to play together, but for now on, if an admin or anyone ask us to change sides we will, it's just that's its not easy to have 2 players change side at the same time :(

However we really don't care abouyt wining, we just like teamplay, and we make sure to use game voice chat as much as we can, and THG is just the best teamplay oriented server there is.

Hemsk i promise you, if, in the future you really feel like Shake and me are stacking just ask us to change side and if you can find one person to change side with you we will immediatly change sides. As long as we play together we really don't mind. (And just send me a msg on steam if i dont' see it in chat)

Cheers.
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 9:41 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Team Stacking.. Reply with quote

This is an issue that's been discussed on more than one occasion over the years (team stacking that is) and personally I don't think there's a real solution.

The closest thing we've come to in terms of a solution so far is to ask people to switch to even up the teams (or they notice this themselves and switch). Although in the case of a combo, if they're playing together its probably more likely they'd leave rather than one switching, but maybe I'm incorrect on this.

Sometimes the teams are unfair. Sometimes it's bad class choices. Sometimes it's a map that suits blu or red. The point I'm trying to make is that the teams can appear uneven and its not necessarily due to stacking. I realise that amongst the regs there are differing skill levels however, so simply having two teams of regulars might not be enough for an even game.

Open to further thoughts / ideas about how we can improve things.
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Hemsk
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 10:16 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Team Stacking.. Reply with quote

I totally get the desire for teamplay, I just dont think a community pug server is the place for what is effectively premade teaming. As said, teamplay levels on this server are generally quite high anyway, I dont see why you guys cant just click auto-join a side and take your chances like everyone else does. Even 2 people teaming together can make a significant difference to a pug server, its no coincidence that the 2 of you are the only 2 players with 60%+ win ratios (62% kaibz / 63% shake). Its a compliment and testament to the both of you, but maybe not so much fun for the rest. To take it to the extreme, what if 3-4 div 1 players kept joining together on one side? They would win almost every single round - fun for them but not for 20 other people.

Dav - of course there are other factors. Hell, im as guilty of weakening a team more than most with my stupid fishing thing. I'm also almost completely against admin scrambling (as Aeryn can testify to), it never works. I know sometimes one team just plays better and that some maps naturally favour one side. What we are talking about here is a very deliberate and 100% consistent effort to be on the same team (joining spec first and waiting for a spot), and that just always stacks the deck in favour of one side. And its then quite easily compounded when a couple of other stronger players maybe decide to choose blue too so they can be on the stronger team.

However, I agree theres probably almost nothing to do about it. The best you can hope for is everyone agreeing to just click random team and take what comes.
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 10:52 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Team Stacking.. Reply with quote

I understand but....Honestly we're friends and we just like to play together, we don't care about win/loss ratio, I didnt' realise that "premade teaming" is bad for the server. But once again if 2 people agree to switch with us on the other team we will, at any time, i promise!

However, we often join early, when we can, to get the server to fill up, i supported the server this month, i posted on Burzum thread on steam to "advertise" for server teamplay, but if the fact that we're playing together such an issue, and players or admins want us to leave, we will Sad
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binksy
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:20 am Post subject: No icon Re: Team Stacking.. Reply with quote

TBH i think the admins do need to wake up/be more aware at times of stacking!

Its always been an issue and there are some players that are bad for it, not fair only want fun for them self's etc,

Admins should try more to help! "not that they can 100% fix things as they can't" but they can TRY they have scramble at there fingers, can move a single player etc, or just ask or warn Wink...

I see players swap allot to the better team, inc regs! i think these players need warnings as it really does suck. I think 1 game is ok, next map or next round should be different teams, else its stacking.

Weather intentional or not! that's the problem that pees people off, 1 game is ok, 2,3 ,4 games later shit server/games not fun etc..

We all should play for fun supposedly, but some just don't try to help others have that fun too, and need to a little more that's it and what it always is,

ADMINS ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT CAN HELP IT! MOAN AT THEM MORE BRING IT TO THE FORUMS SO WE GET IT SORTED ;)

We don't want anyone to leave we want to fix it for all, make it fun for all, its not that easy but surely we can help  Cool
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:39 am Post subject: No icon Re: Team Stacking.. Reply with quote

the easiest way to sort this out is don't play heavy/medic combo all the time. Due to the game balance itself, a medic/hevy combo made by 2 good players, results more often then not as an almost unstoppable force. this doesen't happens when on the other team there are enought good player willing to play the right classes to prevent this from happening, but for one reason or another that's not often the case.

so my advice is to try to play and ejoy other classes more often. For me playin all classes has been the reason why i still play this game, and the heavy/medic issue has been one of the reasons why i don't play heavy anymore; the other one is that there are lots of other classes that are way more fun to play.
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carlos
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:48 am Post subject: No icon Re: Team Stacking.. Reply with quote

As binks just said Admins are able to move (swop) a single player with another

Admins should also take 5 mins when the server is empty to get to know what they have and can do with the admin menu. As this can help out with alot of issue's on the server.

If someone needs swopping just ask an admin to do it for you if you cant.
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aerynsun
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 10:52 am Post subject: No icon Re: Team Stacking.. Reply with quote

hi all

as i am there quite alot i do know this has caused a problem but i am also very aware that sometimes one side just loses because of bad class choices, and if we have good choices and regs it balances out much better, so it is very difficult to ask people to swap when our own class choices seriously dont help in the matter (and actully is unfair on the other team to ask them to do so), so getting the balance right is very difficult.

hemsk kaibz and shake you are all great players and great people, and i think autoing is the best way round this. Kaibz and shake its not ever going to be a question of leaving the server, your teamwork sets a bloody good example to others (even if it does kill alot of us in the process).
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 1:01 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Team Stacking.. Reply with quote

More then willing to admin swap players that ask. I have scrambled it a fair few times when it is ridiculously stacked. Left it a few times when I felt the main difference was class selection. I don't think we should stop people two friends playing on the same team but we can ask them to swap classes.

A few times I have played spy and just targeted Kaibz to balance it more.

Difficult issue and will only be solved with the consent of the players involved.

k
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 1:21 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Team Stacking.. Reply with quote

I'll caveat my first ever post with "this is all in my opinion...."

Let's not make mountains out of molehills.

Most games later in the evening are fairly balanced.

I'm sure a gentle nudge from Ayern can smooth over any lop sided games.

After all common sense prevails over too much regulation.
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aerynsun
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 1:29 pm Post subject: No icon Re: Team Stacking.. Reply with quote

kLoWn wrote (View Post):

A few times I have played spy and just targeted Kaibz to balance it more.

Difficult issue and will only be solved with the consent of the players involved.

k


could you keep it on kaibz and forget me from now on please klown   nothing personal kaibz  Smile
and hello mr Hdot nice to see you here too  Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 8:22 am Post subject: No icon Re: Team Stacking.. Reply with quote

Just remind, even when you feel your team is stacked, you still could have fun as boxing heavy,  demoknight/demopan, archer etc. This will be more...tolerant to newbie players and whole team balance.
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